Dead or alive: Advertising honchos Madhukar Kamath (L) or Mudra and iran Khalap of chlorophyll debate the demise of the advertising startup

The Taj lands end is an appropriate place to discuss start-ups, but Crossfire moderator Suhel Seth had something else on his mind. "Bombay's weather is like Bollywood actresses," he observed, "It's more about the tease than about the act." With only a little further ado, though, he got to the evening's debate-sponsored by Royal Challenge in association with Liberty.

'The advertising start-up is dead.' Madhukar Kamath, CEO of Mudra, stood for the motion, and Kiran Khalap, founder of chlorophyll, a recent start-up, stood against. "The exercise," Seth warned, "is meant to be violent intellectually."

Kamath opened his assault by accusing BT editor Sanjoy Narayan of setting him up-putting him up against a start-up man as good as Khalap, and that too with another famous start-up man as moderator. After that, he gave the audience an aerial view of the Indian ad start-up graveyard-with MCM's tombstone shining brightest. The 1970s and 1980s saw brilliant start-ups, he recalled, but the 1990s saw the multinationals take charge. "Name me one agency in the last five years that has made a significant difference as far as Indian advertising is concerned," he challenged, "None."

IS THE AD STARTUP DEAD?

"The people who can really do genuine startups and make a genuine difference are no more there in the industry" Madhukar Kamath, CEO, Mudra Communications

"Whenever a person has had one single principle to stick to, the startup has survived. It has had disproportionate impact" Kiran Khalap, Founder, Chlorophyll

"Why do startups need to have a defined image? Making money is as good a reason as any" Suhel Seth, CEO, Equus Red Cell

Kamath's proffered reason: a global change in the very industry. "... it's no longer advertising." It's a much broader field, calling for a new range of skills. "What you require are communication start-ups," he argued, "idea start-ups." But, alas, youngsters of such verve and dynamism just aren't coming in as they did a generation before, and that's the problem. "The people who can really do genuine start-ups and make a genuine difference," Kamath alleged, "are no more there in the industry." Going nostalgic, he added that the fun decade was the 1980s, "with new agencies popping up and major tectonic changes happening." The 1990s were slower. And this decade? "This decade has been pretty boring. You keep doing the same thing again and again."

"Start-up people are built differently," agreed Seth, pointing to 'risk-taking' as a rare ability in the industry, and then letting Khalap have his say.

Khalap, however, wanted a series of clarifications on what exactly this 'start-up' was that was being pronounced dead. "The start-up is dead. It's like saying anyone who invents the fabulous ghoda-gadi is dead. That's correct, because there's no point inventing a new ghoda-gadi." Further, by way of rebuttal, he asked, "Are we saying the notion of a start-up, the notion of one man who'll stand up and say, 'I have a different belief and I'll follow it to the end of the earth'... is that notion dead?" The intention of a start-up, he made quite clear, was not to do what had been done before. So if it's about whether a start-up can start in 2004 and succeed... Khalap's answer was 'yes'.

From all corners: The audience displayed a healthy interest in the survival of the advertising start-up, as the sparks flew

Interactive deliberations: The Q&A session, with questions from advertising execs like V. Ramani, CEO, Mediaturf Worldwide, enlivened the debate

"Any start-up that has stuck to what it believes in, has had enormous impact," argued Khalap, citing among his examples an Amsterdam agency called Strawberry Frog, which is not just another agency. "They believe that they can do advertising sitting in Amsterdam because all their employees are multinational. So at any given point of time, you'll have one Tunisian, one Indian and one American. Whenever a person has had one single principle to stick to, the start-up has survived. It has had disproportionate impact." Describing regular multinational agencies that follow "Mr. Coke and Mr. Nestle" around the world as "deliverers of tips", Khalap argued that truly differentiated agencies are those that are not part of the manufacturing paradigm. "For God's sake, we are not a manufacturing industry. We're not even a service industry. I don't know what we are." An idea industry, he contended, could not really be run like a sprawling business empire. Because ideas come from individuals, and individuals with ideas do not happily take to being part of some big corporate machine. They want freedom.

With that began the counter-jabs and audience questions. Someone wanted to know how Khalap's little outfit meets 360-degree branding demands of clients, to which he replied quite simply: by not working for them, by being choosy. Another questioner wanted to know how important creativity was to the client relationship, to which Kamath responded by placing it right on top as a business priority.

The purpose of a start-up remained the evening's theme. "The intention is to make a differentiated offering," said Kamath, in an attempt to modify Khalap's notion of intent. This gave Seth the chance to intervene, which he did by knocking down the start-up dream of "changing the world". Making money is just as good a motivation as any, he said. "Why do we need to have start-ups in a defined image?"